Career Warrior Podcast #306) Maya Grossman: 7 Uncomfortable Truths About Career Building

Episode Transcript

Maya Grossman 0:00
Your real competition is with yourself. It’s with the person that you were yesterday. Am I better than what I was yesterday? LinkedIn presents

Chris Villanueva 0:17
Welcome to the Let’s Eat, Grandma Career Warrior Podcast or your podcast. And welcome to the Let’s Eat, Grandma Career Warrior Podcast where our goal is not only to help you land your dream job, but to help you live your best life.

Today, we’re going to talk about seven uncomfortable truth about careers that most people spend their entire lives avoiding. Man, this is such a big episode, and I brought on a legendary guest who we’ve had before, you may know her by the name of Maya Grossman. Maya is a Career Coach, 2x VP of marketing and a best selling author. She spent 15 years in the corporate world growing from an individual contributor to a VP, achieving 10 promotions in 15 years, and working for some of the best companies in the world like Microsoft and Google. Now Maya teaches ambitious professionals how to level up into executive roles, make quantum leaps in their careers and earn high 6 figures, without working harder. So, whether you’re just starting your professional journey or you’ve been in the career “matrix” for years, understanding these truths can be a game-changer. And so I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it. Without further ado, here is Episode 306 of the Career Warrior Podcast. Maya, welcome to the show.

Maya Grossman 1:42
Hey, Chris. So happy to be here again.

Chris Villanueva 1:44
Now, we are in person and we normally don’t do episodes in person these days. So I physically have Maya in the Career Warrior Podcast studio over here. We’re in like the screen screen room over here, so lots of cool effects.

Maya Grossman 1:57
I know it’s so much fun to finally meet you. We met on LinkedIn, what a couple of years ago, I think. So I’m very, very excited to have this opportunity.

Chris Villanueva 2:06
It’s gonna be great. And the reason why this episode, where I should say, this episode is inspired by a LinkedIn post that you put out a while ago, and it just popped out of the screen while I had when I saw it. But can you talk about that LinkedIn post? And like what inspired you to post I guess about these uncomfortable truths?

Maya Grossman 2:25
Yeah. So I think when you started the conversation today, you said, there are some things that we’ve been taught something that we’ve been conditioned to think about when it comes to our careers, but in reality, it’s a little bit different. And I see a lot of people get stuck and you know, they’re not able to grow their career as fast as they want to, because they keep believing those truths that are actually not realistic. I just wanted to uncover those. I wanted to boost all the myths and make sure that people understand, “hey, there’s a different way, there’s a better way for you to grow your career, and give some advice.”

Chris Villanueva 3:01
I love it. And so I always like to ask folks who have been in the career coaching space, like how did you get into career coaching? Because you have an amazing marketing background as well. But how did that translate on over to what you do today?

Maya Grossman 3:13
Yeah, that is actually very funny, because I never thought I would do this. It wasn’t on my list or on my plan for my career, I wanted to become the CMO of a Silicon Valley startup. that was my dream. And for seven years, I chased that dream until I made it a reality. But in the process, I learned so much. And I started mentoring and teaching other people, my employees, my friends, my family, everyone kept coming back to me for advice. And one day, someone said, “Hey, maybe you should do this for a living.” And that was the first time that I stopped and I thought, “hey, what if I could do this?” And I started, you know, doing some more intentional coaching on the side, I wrote my book and that’s when I had an aha moment. Like, I’m done. I love marketing. But I think that was chapter number one.

Chris Villanueva 4:00
I love it and the advice you post on LinkedIn is truly awesome. I know we had a conversation, I think it was like a year ago, about LinkedIn specifically, and that kind of thing. So I think the way you do the platform is exceptional. So anyone who’s listening to this right now needs to just follow you right now and this isn’t just a pitch for that. But I think it’s really important to to see this type of content you’re putting out there. So let’s launch into it, what is uncomfortable truth number one that job seekers need to know not just job seekers, but folks who are navigating their careers?

Maya Grossman 4:29
Yeah, well, if we’re looking back at the posts that I shared number one was, you need to understand that a company is not your family. And this is something that I had to learn the hard way not because I worked for a terrible company but actually the opposite. I worked for an incredible company where you might actually say people cared for you as much as family. But still they had to make business decisions and no matter how much they tried to be as fair as possible, at some point, when things got really rough, you had to let people go. So I learned that no matter what people tell you, it’s not coming from a bad place necessarily. But work is work. You can have friends, don’t get me wrong, you can care for people, you can have great relationships. But always in the back of your mind, you have to remind yourself, this is still a workplace. This is a business. And their goal is to create profits and revenue. And if your job is going to come in the way, unfortunately, you will be the one to go.

Chris Villanueva 5:31
There is a lie, and I understand why you’re saying this, but people are putting in HR postings, people are saying in company meetings like, “this is a family, we’re all family together.” But it sounds counterintuitive, when you bring up like the fact that you might have to make a tough decision, like a layoff or firing in something that has to do with more of the business decision, I think is really tough. It’s like you can’t really do that with a family member and I think that’s really hard. So how do you keep the boundary? Because I know a lot of us job seekers or people in our careers want to build relationships, and people have good relationships at work. But how do we keep that boundary in a way that’s, like, I’m not your family? You know?

Maya Grossman 6:09
Yeah, to me, family means unconditional love and support. I haven’t seen unconditional love and support come from anywhere else that’s not like your immediate family. And that’s how I kind of separate the two. But what I usually suggest that people do first and foremost, you can build relationships, I still am close friends with some of my managers, people who are on my team, I’ve built great relationships and friendships, there’s nothing wrong with that. Again, you just need to keep in the back of your mind that the first priority for the company is not you. So you need to take care of yourself, you always need to have a plan B, you need to be alert, you need to know that if things get tough, then you need to take care of yourself because no one else is gonna do it for you. Right?

Chris Villanueva 6:55
I love that. So I’m just coasting right through what is uncomfortable truth number two, Maya.

Maya Grossman 7:00
So number two was the fact that results matter more than titles. And I know that a lot of people don’t believe me when I say that. But as a hiring manager, I’ve hired dozens and dozens of people in my career and very often, titles can be very misleading. Because you know, one title in this company is not the equivalent of that same title with another company. So we use them as signals, right? We use the name of your previous employer, right? If you worked for this type of company, or if you went to an Ivy League school, we assume that it comes with some sort of a signal that you’re going to be really good at your job. However, that’s not always true. I have interviewed people with fancy titles who were just not good at their job, right. However, there’s one thing you cannot argue with and that is results. Because if you actually made something happen, that is proof that you have the experience that as a hiring manager I’m looking for. So I try to look beat on the titles. Because when people can show me results, then I don’t care what their previous title was, I just know that they can do the work.

Chris Villanueva 8:10
And that’s really helpful for job seekers who let’s say they want to move on to a marketing director position, you never really had that title formally. But you can demonstrate in your resume through accomplishment oriented bullet points, the things that we’re always teaching over here, that you can do that thing that the job is going to be calling for, even though you haven’t had marketing director, for instance, in the title. And so I think it’s really good also that you point out the fact that the people that do have the title don’t necessarily have the wherewithal or like the qualifications to do the job properly.

Maya Grossman 8:42
Yeah and I think it’s on the hiring manager to diversify when they interview. I mean, if I’m looking for a director, and someone with like, one year of experience is applying, obviously, it’s not going to be a good match. But I mean, I have jumped from role to role where I actually leveled up by doing exactly what I’m telling you here. I showed the hiring manager that I can do the job, sometimes they did it with actual results that I had, and sometimes I had to create something new, right? So I like to put together a value validation project or do something because there’s such a huge difference between telling people what you can do, and showing them what you can do. When you show it is non-negotiable, yeah, and that’s how you open doors.

Chris Villanueva 9:28
I love it. Yeah. Like how do you tell somebody that you are a great communicator, or you’re a people person, like you show them that through different projects and things like that, telling them a story. And I think a lot of people make the mistake of billing. I’m a resume writer, you know, at heart here, but people fill their resumes with just fluff and too many skills that don’t really showcase value. I know we had a podcast episode about soft skills, and I think soft skills are incredibly important, but you also have to show those not just say, you know, good communicator are things like that? So?

Maya Grossman 10:01
Yeah, and I actually had people first and foremost, yes, stories are incredible if you can tell stories about your leadership style, or how you handle difficult situations, but you can also get testimonials and referrals from people you worked with. That’s also a really great way to show, “Hey, I actually do work well with other people.”

Chris Villanueva 10:21
All right, moving on to and this is a fun one. I looked at this one earlier, I knew all these actually people. So it’s no surprise, none of these are surprised to me. What is uncomfortable truth number three?

Maya Grossman 10:31
Okay, that is the fact that working hard will only get you so far.

Chris Villanueva 10:35
Oh, that’s a big one. And a lot of people who are just feeling in the gut right now, but tell me.

Maya Grossman 10:43
Yeah, I mean, that was me for seven years, I thought, “if I can just outwork anyone else, I’m gonna get there, I’m gonna grow, I’m gonna move forward.” And it was true very early in my career because when you’re just building your skills, when you’re just getting started, yes, working hard will definitely open a door. But after a certain step, especially if you want to jump into people management, that’s when it is not enough. It’s not about more, it’s not about hours, it’s about being more strategic and doing work that has meaning. Because your goal is to demonstrate that you can add more and more value, not just do more hours. And I think where people really misunderstand is that they focus on output and not on outcomes, and there’s a huge difference. Outputs are the amount of something that you produced, how many emails you wrote, how many phone calls you had. Outcomes? That’s the result, that’s what happened as a result of you sending an email, did you get a new client, were you able to create a new campaign? What happens through those calls. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of people focus on the outputs, instead of the outcome.

Chris Villanueva 11:52
I had to apologize to my wife the other day, because I told her, I was like, “I’m working my butt off over you.” I came home after like a 12-hour day. But I realized how stupid of a statement that was because it didn’t necessarily mean that I was putting something out here good for the world. Like I’m an entrepreneur, I can’t just go out there and work hard and expect all of a sudden, the money to be made and like things to be taken care of, and things to progress. It’s like, you really have to accomplish the results and make it tangible in order for there to be an impact. For me, especially like I felt that a lot over like the last few months. So like a lot of us are spending time just wasting just doing tasks that may not be truly fruitful for ourselves or our company.

Maya Grossman 12:34
Yeah, you gotta focus on moving the needle. That’s how we’re gonna move up in the corporate world.

Chris Villanueva 12:38
Yeah. Cool. I know, we can go a lot further there. But I want to make sure that we have enough time for these other ones here. What is uncomfortable truth number four?

Maya Grossman 12:47
That is that the best person doesn’t always get the job and that was very hard for me, because I grew up thinking, “Oh, it’s a meritocracy.” But unfortunately, it’s not. It doesn’t mean, I’m not talking about nepotism, or anything along those lines, it’s just that you can have all the skills and the experiences, but if you don’t know how to tell a good story, if you can demonstrate that to a hiring manager, then they’re gonna hire the person who can do that, who can tell a great story, who can show them, “hey, this is what it’s gonna look like when we work together, this is the impact that I can make.” So you have to go beyond the skills and actually learn how to sell yourself.

Chris Villanueva 13:26
I’m gonna follow up with a question that I looked at before this like to that one, have you ever witnessed a situation where someone, let’s say that they were less qualified, or that they were less experienced? Got that job over a more, quote, more deserving candidate? And like, what, you know, I know, it’s like being able to showcase what you can do but like, would influence a decision like that?

Maya Grossman 13:49
Yes, actually, I have a story from my career as a manager where I had to hire someone to do social media. And I had two final candidates, one of them had five years of experience been there, done that, literally checked all the boxes on the resume. And the other was actually very early in her career but she was passionate about social media, she opened up different profiles for herself. She learned she was just so excited to get in and she was willing to do whatever it takes. And technically I should have gone for the more experienced candidate, but this person was just so like, laid back. He was like into it. It’s like I will take any job and it’s just the energy wasn’t there. So on paper, he had everything but I didn’t think that he was going to go the extra mile. And the other candidate was like she was going above and beyond she said be plans and ideas. And you know what, it was one of the best hiring decisions I’ve ever made. She got in she did fantastically, and she was one of the first to become a supervisor because she was that good.

Chris Villanueva 14:54
I love that. Attitude is one thing. I mean, we always hear it’s like you can’t really train for attitude or having to like, go that extra mile. And so like, that’s a really good example there. I’d say like in my own life, there have been many situations in which I have chosen the person who may not have like the best resume, but I knew that at least there, we were able to build a good relationship over time and those ended up being the ones that move things forward. So I’m glad you brought that one up. I think that’s one that a lot of people need to hear, and people who might get frustrated because, like, okay, I have way more skills than this other person. But are you really showing it to end up moving your career forward? Like we said,

Maya Grossman 15:31
Yeah, and I can testify from my own career very often, if you look at my journey, as a marketer, I probably tried everything you can try in the world of marketing and moving from one role to another when technically I’ve never done that role. Leveling up was definitely not easy. I had to prove to people and to show them that I can do it and in every step of the way, that is what I was able to do. Even though on paper, I probably wasn’t the best candidate but I was able to tell a very compelling story. When necessary, I created evidence, I literally showed them what I can do and I built a great relationship with those people so that they really wanted to work with me.

Chris Villanueva 16:11
Okay, so we’ll dig a little bit further into that, just because I think this is a really good one to riff off of, but fighting entitlement, how can people shift their mindset and take more ownership of their progression, rather than expecting others to just, I know what this is the career warrior podcast, and no one feels entitled. But I really, really do want to fight that mentality to make sure that people get what they deserve. And it’s because they’re doing the right things to show that they’re qualified.

Maya Grossman 16:37
Yeah, well, you’re speaking my language, because truth number five is that no one owes you a promotion, or raise none of that. It’s not a given. And the only person who would ever really care about your career as much as you is you, like, literally, no one is coming to save you. And if you want to have a fantastic career that makes you happy and fulfilled, you need to make it happen. You need to become the CEO of your career. This is what I tell everyone. You need to manage your career like you’re a one person company, and take care of everything. And I think the problem is people don’t realize they can do that. You can have a career by design, not by default. If you’re just willing to take control, and create those opportunities for yourself.

Chris Villanueva 17:22
Stories, I want to hear a story about how someone did exactly that, even if it’s yourself, like because I think you have an amazing, amazing business. But what specifically, how can I take control? This is like something where I need to come up with a map or road plan, like, or do I need to just like hop into it?

Maya Grossman 17:38
Yeah, well, it can actually start small, you can just look around and ask yourself, “Am I living the career of my dreams? Is this what I want?” And if the answer is no, then ask yourself, “Okay, what can I do about it? What can I do to get closer to my goals.” And it’s actually something that I had to do very early in my career. So a lot of people know this, but I actually did not start my career in marketing. I was a travel agent for almost seven years and I just kind of fell into this job. And it was really convenient. It was a nice, you know, company. And then I did my bachelor’s and I majored in marketing and finance, really hated finance, fell in love with marketing. And I thought to myself, “Oh, my God, this is what I want to do for the rest of my career.” However, I didn’t work for a company that even had a marketing department, right? So I was so worried that I’m gonna have to take a step back, I’m gonna take seven years of my life and just completely ignore them because I have to start from scratch and also had no idea how to get a marketing job. I didn’t know anyone in marketing. I kind of thought about it probably for a couple of good, you know, weeks or month and it drove me crazy. And then I said, “Okay, I don’t want to take a step back. And I’m not sure what I need to do but the one thing that I’m sure about is that I need marketing experience.” I had the knowledge because I, you know, did my bachelor’s, but I didn’t have experience, how can I get experience? And I asked myself, “how can I do it with this company?” And then I turn a disadvantage to an advantage. I said, “Wait, they don’t have a marketing department, maybe I can be the marketing department.”

Chris Villanueva 19:16
And I said, Okay, response. I love that.

Maya Grossman 19:19
It took a few weeks to figure this out. But then I was like, “okay, so what can I do? What’s the easiest thing?” And I thought social media. So this is how old I am. This was the first days of Facebook and I thought, “my God, I can just do that I would open a Facebook page, I will create content, I’ll bring people and it will actually be helpful for the agency because they’ll get new clients.” And I told my manager, “Hey, would you mind if I do this, like in my spare time, I’m still going to do my day job. I just want to get some experience doing marketing.” And because I’ve been there for so long, right? It was almost seven years at this point, they said, “of course go ahead, do whatever you want.” So I spent six months building Facebook and Twitter, really growing a following in Korea. Eating content, getting that real experience, and then I was confident enough to actually apply for a marketing job and I got it. So I didn’t have to take a massive step back. I got a marketing job that I wanted. But I made it happen. I didn’t wait for anyone. I didn’t wait for that company to figure out, oh, we need a marketing department. I created this opportunity and I kept doing that throughout my career.

Chris Villanueva 20:24
I love that. That’s a great example, always reminds me of my dream when I was younger was to be on a radio show. I’m like, how me to make this happen. And so all of a sudden, the podcast popped up. I’m like, “okay, in a weird way we make the things happen that we’re attracted to.” But I love that example. That’s really good illustration, pedaling action, take your career in your own hands. So far, we have number one, companies are not your family; two, results matter more than titles; three, working hard will only get you so far for the best person doesn’t always get the job. And the one we just covered, which is no one owes you a job, a raise, or promotion. What is number six?

Maya Grossman 21:01
Okay, so number six says that it’s easier to level up to get a promotion when you use a backdoor. And I get a lot of questions about this one, though, I can explain what most people believe is that if they want to get promoted, they need to work really hard and they need to do more of the same. However, the promotion is actually a vote of confidence in your ability to do next level work. So your main goal is actually to demonstrate that you can already operate at the next level before you get the title. But most people don’t realize that. So what do they do? They just work really, really, really hard. They wait for their turn, they they go back to number three, yeah, so the corporate to tell them, “Oh, you’ve been here for five years, okay, we can consider a promotion.” But at least for me, that wasn’t good enough, I was ready a lot faster and I wanted to grow and demonstrate my abilities.

So what you do instead is you create an opportunity for a promotion, you start operating at the next level, you add value to the point where the company feels stupid not to promote you, because they’re getting so much. And obviously, you need to make your case for it and I actually do have a course called the “Promotion Accelerator” where I teach people how to get promoted, like every step of the way. Because it’s not just about the work that you do, it’s also about the people that you know, the relationships that you build, the reputation you have. And the one thing that most people skip, is making a case for your promotion. Right, just because you did the work doesn’t mean other people know, doesn’t mean they understand that you deserve it. So you really need to learn how to showcase your abilities. But this is what I call doing it through the back door, because instead of standing in line with everyone else waiting for the right year to get promoted, you kind of bypass all of that create an opportunity. And then you get promoted twice a year, which is something one of my clients did, or you get promoted six months into a new role. And you just create your own opportunities instead of waiting.

Chris Villanueva 22:59
So it sounds like you’re not waiting till the performance review to make this happen. Every year there are other times or other ways to present yourself other than that one crucial moment or that one meeting.

Maya Grossman 23:10
100%. And I get this a lot, okay, yes. With some companies, it is more likely for you to get promoted through a promotion cycle if you wait for the review. But I have had so many clients as students get promoted outside of cycle, because they did exactly what I just told you to do. You create your own opportunity, you add so much value, that it makes no sense for the company not to promote you.

Chris Villanueva 23:33
I love that. We’re flying by here and my you’ve been a fabulous guest finally, in the studio in person, Maya Grossman, this is awesome. What is the final uncomfortable truth for job seekers?

Maya Grossman 23:45
Okay, this is my favorite because this is one of the things that really holds people back. Number seven is your real competition is with yourself. It’s with the person that you were yesterday. And I know we all compare, trust me, I compare myself all the time I compared myself when I was in corporate to other marketers, I compare myself to business owners right now, how ever you cannot let that hold you back. You cannot let that comparison make you feel entitled, it should only empower you and encourage you to do better because you have proof that someone like you was able to do it. So your only competition should be with yourself. Am I better than what I was yesterday?

Chris Villanueva 24:28
So you’re reframing the thing that competition as like something to be perhaps like intimidated by or worried about instead of looking at it that way you look at it as proof.

Maya Grossman 24:38
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I tried to stop and I couldn’t. So I asked myself, okay, how can I make this something positive? And what you need to do is make sure that you’re not comparing yourself to someone who are leaps and bounds ahead of you, right? Like I can’t compare myself to the richest people in the world to the best coaches out there because I’m not there yet. I just started

Chris Villanueva 24:58
I’m far from Joe Rogan here for the podcast.

Maya Grossman 25:01
Exactly but it’s something to aspire to, which is great. But when you actually compare, you want to look at someone who is maybe one or two steps ahead of you. And if you can, you want to look at someone who maybe has a similar background, or you have similar values, because that way, when you look at them, you’re like, if they did it, I can do it. And then you use that as motivation instead of something that holds you back.

Chris Villanueva 25:23
Yeah. And we’ve talked him on this podcast before about the idea of like informational interviews, and like, how many people have actually had a conversation with somebody who is in the position that you want in the future, like five to 10 years down the line? And like, for me, like, this is like a wake up call for me, like, how many times have I recently had a conversation with a business owner who’s like, leveled up their business to the place that I want to be? So I think, instead of seeing it as like a judgmental thing, like I need to feel bad, like they see it as like a learning opportunity for me to, like, actually meet somebody appreciate what they’re doing. And heck, it might turn into an opportunity yourself, you know.

Maya Grossman 26:00
Yeah, there’s actually a really interesting research that I learned about recently. And it says that if you are sitting close to someone who’s like an a performer, like a player, someone who’s a little bit ahead of you, like they’re the best of the best, it is actually likely to impact you in a really positive way. I think there’s like a 15% chance of you actually leveling up growing, because we become the environment that and the people that surround us. But if you’re sitting with someone who is a naysayer, if you’re around someone who’s maybe not even trying, then you’re likely to actually decrease your performance by 30%. That is how much we’re impacted by the people around us. So if you can use this in a positive way, just putting yourself in that environment, and to your point, talking to people who have the job you want to have, you’re already going to change your mindset, you’re already going to feel better and get more motivated, instead of looking kind of lurking from the sidelines and thinking, ooh, why exam and not me, it’s not fair. So you turn a negative into a positive, and you can actually grow through that. 

Chris Villanueva 27:09
Alright, so I can’t thank you enough for doing this episode. I think this was a long time coming. Because I’ve seen you in the LinkedIn universe so many times, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, I need to have Maya back.” So this is awesome. I want to ask in a second about how people can get in touch with you. You also talked about your course, which I’m sure would be great for anyone who’s not only job seeking, but in their career liquid to advance, but famous tattoo question. Let’s see, I think I asked you this like a year ago, but I want to see if it changed. But if you could tattoo one thing for every career warrior out there, perhaps struggling but really looking to level up their career? What message would that be?

Maya Grossman 27:44
You can do anything you set your mind to. You can do anything you set your mind to it plain and simple, because I honestly believe it. I do too. You’re gonna see my arm next time, it’s gonna say that exact thing. 

Chris Villanueva 27:53
Okay, I’m gonna hold you to that one. I love that. That’s so good. All right, my. So I know the book we spoke about last episode, what is the new thing that you’re working on right now that you want people to be aware of?

Maya Grossman 28:08
Yeah, well, I am a career coach, as you know. So I do have a coaching program where I walk people through everything we talked about today, and essentially teach them how to take control of their career, and create a career by design, not by default. But if you want to get a little bit of a taste, you can try my online course, the Promotion Accelerator, it’s 90 minutes, and it’s going to teach you everything you need to know about how to get promoted.

Chris Villanueva 28:32
When did you launch that one? Was that this year?

Maya Grossman 28:34

Yes, earlier this year.

Chris Villanueva 28:35

That’s awesome. Yeah, how to get promoted? And so is it like a video? Or is is like what? How does it actually work? 

Maya Grossman 28:41
Yeah, it’s a video-based course. And you have a ton of resources, including scripts, like how to ask your manager for a promotion, how to make your case, what KPIs to focus on how to engage with people inside your organization, I will literally walk you through everything. Because it’s a lot easier than you think you just need to be very intentional about how you do it. And I made it super short, 90 minutes, anyone can get through it very quickly and have everything they need to grow their career.

Chris Villanueva 29:10
And listeners, you know what I do, I will make sure to link everything in the description, including my LinkedIn profile. Like I said at the beginning, if you’re not following my you’re making a mistake, so make sure to connect with both of us and let us know what you thought about this episode too. Seriously, I love seeing connection requests from fellow listeners or even tags in the comments. So let us know if any of these uncomfortable truths really spoke to you. If any, you’re like, “What the heck does that even mean?” I would love to hear a comment because that is my favorite thing here. So Maya, thank you so much for joining us today in person in Austin, Texas for the Career Warrior Podcast. You are awesome.

Maya Grossman 29:46
Thank you. It’s my pleasure.

Chris Villanueva 29:48
Career Warrior Podcast. And before you go remember, if you’re not seeing the results you want in your job search, our highly trained team of professional resume writers here at Let’s Eat, Grandma can help head on over to letseatgrandma.com/podcast to get a free resume critique and $70 off any one of our resume writing packages. We talk all the time on the show about the importance of being targeted in your job search and with our unique writing process and focus on individual attention. You’ll get a resume cover letter and LinkedIn profile that are highly customized and tailored to your goals to help you get hired faster. Again, head on over to letseatgrandma.com/podcast. Thanks, and I’ll see you next time.